Rails 3 RC

Robert Calco wrote:

Alan Gutierrez wrote:

Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:

and it's now 24 July, I don't think it's inappropriate to get impatient for a release or an explanation of the delay. Heck, if they asked for help, they might get some, but this silence is bad if the core team want to keep their credibility. Why should I trust a core team that can't get its act together to take 2 minutes to write a blog post explaining why the release was delayed?

To paraphrase:

What am I paying you guys for? I demand *my* money's worth!

Uh, what? That's not what I meant at all. I'm not demanding my "money's worth". In fact, I'm not *demanding* anything.

I don't see how it's unreasonable to point out what I pointed out: that saying "we'll have something in a couple of days" followed by 6 weeks of silence reflects poorly on the core team. The core team may do what they see fit with that information.

-- Alan Gutierrez - alan@blogometer.com - http://twitter.com/bigeasy

Best,

Fernando Perez wrote: [...]

Pop quiz: --------- Greg Donald's statement "If you are unhappy with Rails then use something else [...] and no one here wants to hear you complain" is:

1. Anti-democratic 2. Against the 1st amendment of the United States Constitution 3. Against article #19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights 4. All the above

Probably 1 only (and inaccurate). Certainly none of the others. I'm as frustrated as anybody else here, but I don't think I'm being repressed.

Best,

I politely hinted at a similar question yesterday and got a similarly terse an answer. Growing pains. I think everyone appreciates the work that goes into Rails. Can I hear a "Hell yeah"?

At this huge code factory place I used to work (I forgot the name, it's been a while) we had three mailing lists where the devs were encouraged to announce new features, feature changes, and bug fixes. Just a short note like, "New Feature: Hal9000 can now read lips." Besides keeping everyone informed, it had the unexpected benefit giving the devs that illusive sense of accomplishment, like when you can check something off. A ton of "nice job" mails would come in and you felt good about your work, even while filling out those *&%$! TPS coversheets. Lighthouse alone doesn't give us that. It's good at tracking bugs/issue but it doesn't allow someone to see what's going on, have the pulse of the whole.

If the status was communicated more clearly, more often in a single place, no one will care if it's late as long as they have something to tell their dev-team, managers and clients. (Well, very few -- can't please everybody.)

Just a thought.

Dee

Dee wrote:

I politely hinted at a similar question yesterday and got a similarly terse an answer. Growing pains. I think everyone appreciates the work that goes into Rails. Can I hear a "Hell yeah"?

HELL YEAH!

(Everything I've said here has been from the point of view of wanting Rails to keep kicking ass.)

[...]

If the status was communicated more clearly, more often in a single place, no one will care if it's late as long as they have something to tell their dev-team, managers and clients. (Well, very few -- can't please everybody.)

Exactly. That's what I meant about silence being more of an issue than lateness.

Just a thought.

Dee

Best,

They are in no way being silent and NOTHING is late. Take your whiny ass over to the dashboard and you can see EXACTLY what is going on:

https://rails.lighthouseapp.com/dashboard

Bunch of fucking cry-babies. geez.

Truth hurts.

Just curious, does anyone know if 3.0RC milestone in lighthouse a correct list of the remaining bugs? I was watching it a few weeks ago and they removed the milestone, but they added it back a few days ago.. only 2 tickets in the milestone right now, so it looks like its close to finished. Maybe that will give you guys a warm fuzzy feeling about 3.0... I personally don't care what the version tag says.

I started converting my most complex app to Rails 3 about a month ago with the expectation that the code was almost ready based on the blog from dhh. I was planning on pulling the trigger for the production switchover when RC was available. But now that I have been running on beta4, I don't see the point in waiting. My app has been tested extensively and is running great on rails 3, and it really doesn't matter to me what the version label is if it works. There are going to be outstanding tickets regardless of what version they are on.. I mean hell, 2.3.9 has 52 open tickets right now in LH. In my experience (albeit, limited with one app on Rails 3), the code is solid and you can figure out workarounds for any minor bug that you might find. When RC or final 3.0 comes out I don't really expect to have to change much (if anything).

I understand the frustration since dhh said it would be ready in "days" :wink: And I felt some of that frustration until I finished the conversion and testing a few days ago. Start using Rails 3 now! You will not regret it... there are plenty of people using it with no problems including me. FYI.. I saw gemcutter just completed their conversion to Rails 3.

I think you are in wrong group. This is the one for masochists: http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp/topics

Greg Donald wrote:

If name-calling is the best you can do, please don't bother.

Truth hurts.

Which is why your name-calling didn't hurt. It just saddened me, because IMHO name-calling has no place on a forum such as this one -- it just cheapens the level of discourse and threatens the Rails community that I think we all love.

And that's as far as I'm going to take this issue. It's off topic here, and it's hijacking an important thread.

So does unnecessary rudeness.

Don't see any patches from you on the tracker by the way...

We all know how software engineering is, often we overestimate the amount of effort needed to complete a still abstract task. That's why agility prays fast, simple iterations, say no, cut the bloat. In the case of Rails, it's really more passion than deadlines involved, not to mention it is a collaborative remote effort from people around the world, the process will be kind of chaotic, in the good sense.

Now, I'm not advocating the approach the core-team uses, sometimes they go over the edge with their arrogancy, although this is changing as more people get into the 'elite' sphere (i.e getting more diverse), but I do think that this is a direct consequence of all the stupidity that you often see around a highly-hyped topic such as Rails and other IT topics. It is like selecting "friends". There are just too many people that want fast / magical results or nerds that love to troll.

Marcelo.

Ops, I meant underestimate*

Cheers,

Marcelo.

Guys.

The name-calling, comparing of e-penises and general abusiveness stops now.

You are mature members of the Ruby community and I would expect you to act that way. What ever happened to MINASWAN (Matz Is Nice Always So We Are Nice)? I'd expect this kind of behaviour from a PHP mailing list.

I respect the fact that you've been told that the release is "Any Time Soon"(tm) and "Real Soon Now, Seriously!"(tm), but things come up that stop the release from happening and postpone it. If you want to know what's holding up this release, check out the Rails lighthouse and the Bundler tracker. To the best of my knowledge, there will not be a Rails release candidate released until there is a Bundler release candidate. This is purely speculation on my part, but it makes perfect sense to me, and hopefully to you.

We've all been waiting a while for this release to come out. But what is stopping you from using it right now? What makes the label of "release candidate" so much more appealing when the difference between it and right now could be 1 single documentation commit? There is absolutely nothing stopping you from using it.

So I encourage all of you to:

1) Co-operate and act like respectable members of the community like you all really are, not shit-flinging monkeys. and 2) Try porting over one of your applications this weekend to Rails 3. It's really not that difficult.

I have a friend, Chris Darroch, who's helping me port rboard http://github.com/radar/rboard to Rails 3. Check out the progress on the rails3 branch. As far as I know, we haven't ran into a single Rails bug. All of our problems are because of something we've done or because we needed to use a newer version of a plugin (named_scope instead of just scope, for example).

If you want Rails 3 to be the best it can be, you can help by doing this one small thing. Port your application and see if there's any bugs with it and if they are, report them. I would hope the core team acts in a better attitude than seen in this thread (but it's understandable, given the ungratefulness witnessed) and help you to help us help you.

Enough fighting. I don't want to be a part of a community where people fight over something so... irrelevant. We are *the best* community on the web. Let's not tarnish that reputation by repeating the actions of this thread.

I agree with Ryan.

We all work in software, we understand that fixed timeframe's don't exist, and when they do we end up with Vista type scenarios.

To the core team, take your time, get things right..

Greg,

You have been around as long or longer than I have. I would have thought by now you would have risen above the name-calling and generally arrogant attitude. To me, you are a fellow senior member of the community and it greatly saddens me to see somebody of your level acting in such an immature fashion.

Telling people to leave the community is one sure fire way for them to do that, and I'm sure deep down you don't want that to happen because without people we are without community.

I'd like to thank you for being one of the few people who are not only building a Rails 3 application, but also one of the few people using Ruby 1.9.2.

Please consider the weight of your opinions before blasting those who do not deserve it.

Cry babies who think the Rails core or community owes them something can go cry somewhere else. Last I checked this is a place for technical discussions, not crying over mismanaged business plans.

Telling people to leave the community is one sure fire way for them to do that, and I'm sure deep down you don't want that to happen because without people we are without community.

Not everyone is good for community. I won't be sad a bit if some leave.

Regards, Rimantas

Greg Donald wrote:

Cry babies who think the Rails core or community owes them something can go cry somewhere else.

Must you be so arrogant? What gives you the "right" to dictate where people should go?

Please act like a respectable member.

Must you be so arrogant? What gives you the "right" to dictate where people should go?

Please act like a respectable member.

Care to elaborate why do you have a right to tell others how to act?

Regards, Rimantas