I'm looking for a skilled Ruby on Rails developer to pick up some
slack on one of my company's most interesting projects. Knowledge of
SQL and javascript, and significant web-development experience are a
must. In addition to your wage, there's a potential for profit-
sharing and long-term work. Right now, we can guarantee a minimum of
100 hours. Please contact Josh at 773.363.0820 or through email at
cinekin@gmail.com. This project is time-sensitive; only serious
developers need apply.
Thanks,
Josh Berg
President
Promethean Ventures, LLC
I'm looking for a skilled Ruby on Rails developer to pick up some
slack on one of my company's most interesting projects. Knowledge of
SQL and javascript, and significant web-development experience are a
must. In addition to your wage, there's a potential for profit-
sharing and long-term work. Right now, we can guarantee a minimum of
100 hours. Please contact Josh at 773.363.0820 or through email at
cinekin@gmail.com. This project is time-sensitive; only serious
developers need apply.
Right. You want "significant web-development experience" including "[k]nowledge
of SQL and JavaScript" and you want to pay $25-$50/hour for it, presumably
with no additional benefits. If you're *very* lucky you'll find someone
competent and experienced who, somehow, undervalues him-/herself. Much more
likely is that you will find someone who will gladly claim to have the
experience and knowledge you want and will do a mediocre job. At least as
likely is that you will find no one willing to work for that chicken feed
at all.
I'm not responding because I'm insulted or offended. It is important,
however, not to allow the work we do to be undervalued; $50/hour is on the
very low end of plausible payment for contract web development work by an
experienced programmer.
Thanks,
Josh Berg
President
Promethean Ventures, LLC
Wow... I must live in a real cheap area then, because *nobody* here pays anywhere near $50/hour for any programming work whatsoever - about $25-30 is all I've seen, and around the same range for fulltime employment wanting similar experienced programmers. And about $25/hour is considered high paying for programmers.
I'm only still a beginner with RoR so I'm not qualified for the original request (or I doubt I am, at any rate). I'm just intrigued that $50/hour (at 100 hours, thats 5 grand) is considered very low for an experienced programmer.
Using the rule of thirds (1/3 for taxes, 1/3 for expenses, and 1/3
take home), that $50/hour gig really is only $16.50 an hour, which is
barely enough to eat on. $25 is only $8.25. I wouldn't expect to find
any good programmers for less than $75/hour, minimum.
I must just live in a shit area then - At one point I was looking for
contract at about $55/hour (knowing full-well that I would need to do
my own benefits and taxes and whatnot) and I some people flat-out
laugh at me for wanting so much money. "That's over $100,000 a year!
Nobody will pay that for development!" Most contract gigs I see,
especially through recruiters, pay about $30 although the recruiter
takes taxes and provides benefits, so I guess in that case it evens out.
Using the rule of thirds (1/3 for taxes, 1/3 for expenses, and 1/3
take home), that $50/hour gig really is only $16.50 an hour, which is
barely enough to eat on. $25 is only $8.25. I wouldn't expect to find
any good programmers for less than $75/hour, minimum.
And there's always a (sizable) difference between what you would pay a
salaried worker and what you'd pay a contractor
Sure, $55/hr * 40hr/wk * 52wk/yr > $100,000 but you're comparing contract with salary.
There are problems with this line of thought:
1) Salaried personnel are paid all the time, contractors/consultants only when you need them
2) Acquisition costs of a new employee (W-2) can easily be $15-$20K, for a contractor (1099) this is almost certainly less than $1000 (and might be just a few hundred, but it is *not* zero because someone is still making sure that the new contractor will be paid, right?)
3) As John said, the taxes and other expenses which are built into the contractor's rate are "hidden" in the salary. To get a comparison, you have to factor health insurance, employment taxes, sick/vacation time, 401(k) matching funds, etc. into the salaried number to get an equivalent hourly cost to the company.
I have four clients right now that could not afford to hire me full time and quite frankly don't have the work to keep me busy at a level approaching full time. That's something else that factors into the employee v. contractor decision. While all my clients have at some point (usually at the beginning of the relationship) had nearly complete use of my time, it has simply not been sustainable for any of them (well, OK, so two of them could/can potentially have kept me busy 100% for an extended period of time, but those are the minority).
Wow... I must live in a real cheap area then, because *nobody* here
pays anywhere near $50/hour for any programming work whatsoever -
about $25-30 is all I've seen, and around the same range for fulltime
employment wanting similar experienced programmers. And about $25/
hour is considered high paying for programmers.
I'm only still a beginner with RoR so I'm not qualified for the
original request (or I doubt I am, at any rate). I'm just intrigued
that $50/hour (at 100 hours, thats 5 grand) is considered very low for
an experienced programmer.
It's worth noting that I am specifically talking about contract work, which
includes no benefits and leaves the contractor responsible for his/her own
health insurance, retirement plan, payroll taxes, and (I think) additional
social security and medicare payments. Contractors also have to cover any
desired (or forced by a lack of available work) vacation time with money
saved from billable hours. Earning $25-$50 as an employee at a company is
different, if that's what you were thinking of.
Oh, I know that. I'm just re-iterating what I was flat-out told by a
recruiter when I told him my desired rate for contracting.
Just to be clear, recruiters are not reliable sources of information. They
do not have your best interests at heart. They get paid when they fill a
job slot, not when you are happy. While there are certainly recruiters out
there with integrity, competence, and a good track record they are hard to
pick out of the haystack.
You may find this post helpful in dealing with recruiters:
It's worth noting that I am specifically talking about contract work, which
includes no benefits and leaves the contractor responsible for his/her own
health insurance, retirement plan, payroll taxes, and (I think) additional
social security and medicare payments. Contractors also have to cover any
desired (or forced by a lack of available work) vacation time with money
saved from billable hours.
Don't forget you pay for your own office space (even if it's a home office), office furniture, computer hardware, internet access, cell phone, software, books, training, business insurance, etc. etc. etc.
I've read that the annual business cost for an employee can be anywhere from 1.5 to 2.0 times the employee's salary.
Wayne, I sympathize with what you are saying. I totally believe that
is what people are telling you where you live. And the others are also
correct at the same time that it is too low.
In my experience, I have found that the work of developers (and
engineers) is generally undervalued and under appreciated. The same
people who would not hesitate to spend $300+ per hour on an attorney
to nothing more than push paper, will refuse to spend $50 or more on
engineer. Contracting by the hour is very tough way to make a living.
Good luck to you.