Rails internals ?.

rubyonrails-talk
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Hi. I'm new to ROR, I bought the book "Agile Web Development with Rails, Third Edition" and followed the depot example. I still can't imagine me developing a rails application after that. There are many things that are not explained, and many things that are mentioned, e.g. Rails methods, helpers, ..., which I don't know where to find them if I was looking for them. Where can I find something like "Rails Internals", as I assume that not everything that Rails can do was mentioned in that book. I'm looking for something that covers everything that rails offers, where I can look for things that can help developing Rails applications. I would like to develope a web application to manage different language courses, participants, trainers, invoicing ... This should then be used by one or more separate language companies.

I hope my query is clear. Thanks for any answer. Dani.

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Dani Dani wrote:

Hi. I'm new to ROR, I bought the book "Agile Web Development with Rails, Third Edition" and followed the depot example. I still can't imagine me developing a rails application after that. There are many things that are not explained, and many things that are mentioned, e.g. Rails methods, helpers, ..., which I don't know where to find them if I was looking for them. Where can I find something like "Rails Internals", as I assume that not everything that Rails can do was mentioned in that book. I'm looking for something that covers everything that rails offers, where I can look for things that can help developing Rails applications. I would like to develope a web application to manage different language courses, participants, trainers, invoicing ... This should then be used by one or more separate language companies.

I hope my query is clear. Thanks for any answer. Dani.

Hi Dani, Take a look at rails guide 'http://guides.rubyonrails.org/'. This would help you to get started in rails.

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Dani Dani wrote:

Hi. I'm new to ROR, I bought the book "Agile Web Development with Rails, Third Edition" and followed the depot example. I still can't imagine me developing a rails application after that.

Have you tried? Sometimes you just have to take the plunge in order to learn something.

There are many things that are not explained, and many things that are mentioned, e.g. Rails methods, helpers, ..., which I don't know where to find them if I was looking for them.

If you ask questions, perhaps we can help.

Where can I find something like "Rails Internals", as I assume that not everything that Rails can do was mentioned in that book. I'm looking for something that covers everything that rails offers, where I can look for things that can help developing Rails applications.

Then you're probably not looking for Rails internals at this stage. Just look through the Rails guides and the API docs (http://www.railsapi.com presents the docs more readably than the official site).

I would like to develope a web application to manage different language courses, participants, trainers, invoicing ... This should then be used by one or more separate language companies.

Do it, then! Start with what you can figure out, and do research and ask questions as necessary. Do all development test-first.

I hope my query is clear. Thanks for any answer. Dani.

Best,

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Thanky you both Marnen & Anubhaw.

I did run the depot example application and even used debugger to see things from "inside", but still felt like someone who types in what he was told. The feeling is still there, if I had to do it myself, there are things I wouldN't know even they exist if they were not mentioned in the book. That is what I ment when I ask - where is the collection of all the methodes, helpers, ... of rails. I'll go to those sites you both have mentioned. I'm sure I'll come with further questions. I do apprciate your quick answer and your motivation to help. Thank you !. Dani.

5

Dani Dani wrote:

Thanky you both Marnen & Anubhaw.

I did run the depot example application and even used debugger to see things from "inside", but still felt like someone who types in what he was told. The feeling is still there, if I had to do it myself, there are things I wouldN't know even they exist if they were not mentioned in the book. That is what I ment when I ask - where is the collection of all the methodes, helpers, ... of rails. I'll go to those sites you both have mentioned. I'm sure I'll come with further questions. I do apprciate your quick answer and your motivation to help. Thank you !. Dani.

So start your own project. On something you already know, so your not focused on "what data do I need", or "who are the users", or "how is the data organized" - you know, all those domain knowledge questions that are usually the most important things, and can instead focus on "how do I do this in Rails".

One of the most useful things I did early on was to scaffold a rudimentary application for a person's information, then read through and look at all the scaffolded routines, etc to see how rails wants to work.

rails myapp -d mysql ruby script/generate scaffold person first_name:string last_name:string age:integer

Then go peruse the generated files and 'grok' how the Rails framework works.

Many books dive in with an application that fits how that author builds rails apps. Sure, one would suppose that an author is an authority on a subject, but read 5 Rails books and you'll get 5 different perspectives on how to build an app, how to define your views, etc, etc.

I wouldn't use a scaffolded application for a releasable product, but as an instructional tool, it's virtually free.

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Ar Chron wrote:

Dani Dani wrote:

Thanky you both Marnen & Anubhaw.

I did run the depot example application and even used debugger to see things from "inside", but still felt like someone who types in what he was told. The feeling is still there, if I had to do it myself, there are things I wouldN't know even they exist if they were not mentioned in the book. That is what I ment when I ask - where is the collection of all the methodes, helpers, ... of rails. I'll go to those sites you both have mentioned. I'm sure I'll come with further questions. I do apprciate your quick answer and your motivation to help. Thank you !. Dani.

So start your own project. On something you already know, so your not focused on "what data do I need", or "who are the users", or "how is the data organized" - you know, all those domain knowledge questions that are usually the most important things, and can instead focus on "how do I do this in Rails".

One of the most useful things I did early on was to scaffold a rudimentary application for a person's information, then read through and look at all the scaffolded routines, etc to see how rails wants to work.

Hey, good advice (well, except that I usually counsel beginners away from scaffolding)! My first Rails project (after a false start) was a complete rewrite of an app I'd already created in PHP. I deliberately didn't copy the backend structure -- I wanted to make sure I used Rails as Rails -- but I did basically copy the UI exactly. It was a great learning experience, because I already knew how the app was supposed to work and could focus on the framework.

Best,

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One idea is to hang about here, any question that you understand (at least vaguely), then attempt to understand the answers. This will rapidly lead you to a greater depth of knowledge. In no time you will find yourself answering questions (provided you do not mind occasionally making a fool of yourself of course).

Colin

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Thank you all.

Why not use scaffold in production ? Dani

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Dani Dani wrote:

Thank you all.

Why not use scaffold in production ?

It's underpowered and inflexible. By the time you get to having a production-ready app, you will probably have customized or completely removed your scaffold.

I tend not to use scaffolding even when I'm trying to quickly set up a new app. I wouldn't mourn it if it were removed from Rails.

If you want something scaffold-like with more utility, check out ActiveScaffold. It's probably not what you want for end-user-facing stuff, but it's nice for things like admin interfaces.

Dani

Best,

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I know some are not keen on scaffolding, but personally I found it useful when getting started as it allows one to get to something that provides basic functionality without needing to understand fully what is going on. There are down sides however as it can lead one to be over dependent on it and _never_ understand fully what is going on. For example many beginners assume that there must always be a one-to-one correspondence between controllers and models, which is definitely not the case.

Colin

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Colin Law wrote:

Thank you all.

Why not use scaffold in production ?

I know some are not keen on scaffolding, but personally I found it useful when getting started as it allows one to get to something that provides basic functionality without needing to understand fully what is going on.

But what's going on is easy enough to understand and fundamental.

There are down sides however as it can lead one to be over dependent on it and _never_ understand fully what is going on. For example many beginners assume that there must always be a one-to-one correspondence between controllers and models, which is definitely not the case.

Exactly!

Colin

Best,

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Hello there. When I was starting with Rails last month, I have tried a lot of books and not finishing everyone of them. It was that the books I found was outdated, they're too technical for me to grasp or they just threw lines in which I have to type without explaining what they did sans Rails' magic. The book that worked for me was Simply Rails 2.0 by Patrick Lenz since it is a practical guide and everything is explained.

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Colin Law wrote:

Thank you all.

Why not use scaffold in production ?

I know some are not keen on scaffolding, but personally I found it useful when getting started as it allows one to get to something that provides basic functionality without needing to understand fully what is going on.

But what's going on is easy enough to understand and fundamental.

I am not sure that it is necessarily easy to understand for the absolute beginner. I think maybe what I meant was that having the code automatically produced and in front of one can help in the initial understanding of how to do basic things such as create and update such that they become easy in retrospect.

I don't think there is an absolute answer as to whether scaffolding is a 'good thing' or not. I believe that, for me, it was helpful, but for others maybe not.

Colin

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Colin Law wrote:

But what's going on is easy enough to understand and fundamental.

I am not sure that it is necessarily easy to understand for the absolute beginner.

Perhaps not, but it's necessary to understand it in order to do anything else with Rails.

I think maybe what I meant was that having the code automatically produced and in front of one can help in the initial understanding of how to do basic things such as create and update such that they become easy in retrospect.

That I might agree with (although I tend to use make_resourceful for CRUD).

I don't think there is an absolute answer as to whether scaffolding is a 'good thing' or not. I believe that, for me, it was helpful, but for others maybe not.

You're right, there's no absolute answer. I've seen too many people treating generated scaffolding as sacred and unmodifiable, which is perhaps partly responsible for my attitude. Also, I cut my teeth on Rails 1.x, back in the days of the scaffold *method*, which really was a useless, overhyped newbie hook. The scaffold *generator* is admittedly much better.

Colin

Best,

15

Hi,

I've still got things to learn about RoR - always will have I guess, which is part of the enjoyment - and I would recommend having the Pickaxe book (Programming Ruby) as close to hand as possible. AWDwR was a good place to start for me, but as Rails is Ruby Code, I find the Pickaxe more useful now - however, from what I have seen from the guys at PragProg, the next edition of AWDwR may be more of what you need. Edition 4 is in BETA now, and this comes from the PragProg site:

"You’ll still find the Depot example at the front, but you’ll also find testing knitted right in. Gone are the long reference chapters— that’s what the web does best. Instead you’ll find more targeted information on all the aspects of Rails that you’ll need to be a successful Web developer"

Checkout http://pragprog.com/titles/rails4/agile-web-development-with-rails-4th-edition for more info.

I would definitely recommend just jumping in and starting a simple App, as previously suggested - something like an address book - and work through that. You'll make mistakes, and then you'll learn from them. Also, try freezing rails:

rake rails:freeze:gems # page 259 of AWDwR Edition 3

This will place a copy of your current version of rails into the vendors folder, you can then easily dig into the actual Rails code, play with it, change it, break it, fix it, learn from it, without worrying.

If you don't understand Ruby, I think you'll struggle a bit to do anything other than generate basic scaffolded apps so I think the Pickaxe is a must. How can you understand what Rails is doing/can do, if you don't have an understanding of Ruby?

Finally, one to think about for the future is Metaprogramming Ruby, again from PragProg, but I would leave this until you are up to speed with Ruby in general - depending on your background of course. It gave me a lot of good insights into Ruby as well as Rails.

Good luck with it,

Paul

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Thank you to all for your entries and time. Dani