Looking for RoR Engineer

And this is why people complain about job ad on this list!

No location (I will not relocate to Greece for this job)
No salary (Without the location I have no idea as to the cost of
living and cannot judge the value of the package)
No company details (I have no interest in working for another "me too"
groupon clone)

Without these details people who are unsuitable for the post will
apply and waste your time and people who are suitable will ignore it
because it is clearly a fishing expedition - you do not really have a
post available you just want a bunch of CVs to pester people with.

Peter … you are absolutely right.

BTW1, Greece is very-very-very cheap and has fantastic weather and beautiful sea and beaches.

:slight_smile:

BTW2. I am certain that this job cannot come from a Greek company. Greek companies rarely use Ruby on Rails. Most of them use java technologies and .NET

Panayotis

And this is why people complain about job ad on this list!

No location (I will not relocate to Greece for this job)

That's the big one for me. If they can't even put such extremely
important basic information in their post, especially while they
blather on and on about their so-called "requirements", they have
their priorities SO skewed, or chaotic, that I probably don't want to
deal with them at all in the first place.

No company details (I have no interest in working for another "me too"
groupon clone)

I see this all the time from external recruiters who don't want to
reveal who the client is, in fear that candidates will go behind their
backs and apply to the company directly. Can't blame 'em, really.

-Dave

Most companies will state such a thing during the interview so why get
your knickers knotted? The fact of the matter is what makes you such
a good candidate if you get so butt hurt over such a simple thing
instead of asking the simple question to the recruiter and then basing
your decision on that. Ambition at all?

I would just as well give up on myself if I got my knickers knotted
over anything I could clarify by simply asking a question and didn't
even think or bother to ask that question... At that point, it just
means I lost the game because I'm not even able to do the simplest
things a programmer should do, like ask questions to get
clarification.

Jump down off the horse, join the real world.

In the real world, *smart* recruiters include the essential information
up front so they don't have to individually respond to every potential
candidate asking the exact same questions.

You are, of course, free to deal with clueless recruiters :slight_smile:

To be honest I always assume that the location is the US and given
that an ocean lies between us stop reading them. Of course given the
size of the US I would probably want to know at least the state they
are in if I was American. A city would be preferable :slight_smile:

What gets to me is the lack of industry sector, there are some areas I
do not want to work in, they are some that I am very interested in.
But as the recruiter has not said I assume the worse (another groupon
clone) and skip the ad.

Also I have no intention of giving my CV to a recruiter just so they
can pester me with jobs I have no interest in (some recruiters go
strait to trash, I have mail rules to deal with them). So I'm not
going to send my CV in on spec.

Most companies will state such a thing during the interview so why get
your knickers knotted?

Do you have infinite time for interviews? I'd much rather know ASAP
that it's not going to pan out. It's just another form of "fail
fast".

The fact of the matter is what makes you such
a good candidate if you get so butt hurt over such a simple thing
instead of asking the simple question to the recruiter

I do. If you frequent the Ruby groups on LinkedIn, you'll see dozens
of messages from me asking some idiotic excuse of a recruiter,
"Location?!". I used to bother typing out something like "Could you
please tell us where this job is located?" -- but that got tiresome
after the first several in the same day. Not surprisingly, the
majority of these so-called "recruiters" are just plain drive-by
spammers who don't bother answering.

-Dave

To be honest I always assume that the location is the US

As far as the ones I've seen on LinkedIn go, you're usually right, but
in a significant number of cases it turns out to be somewhere in
India. Of course, that's still probably far from you. Once in a
while, though, it turns out to be London, which I'd guess is much
closer to you. (Unless maybe you meant the *other* ocean bordering
the USA.)

Of course given the size of the US
I would probably want to know at least the state they
are in if I was American. A city would be preferable :slight_smile:

Exactly. And even within a city, a more precise location can make a
big difference. I live about 20 miles west of Washington DC. I'll
commute by Metro to the west corner (it's shaped like a square on a
point), maybe even the middle, but not the far point, nor transfer in
the middle to hit the north or south parts, unless it's an utterly
fantastic opportunity. And parts I can't get to by Metro are right
out.

What gets to me is the lack of industry sector, there are some areas I
do not want to work in, they are some that I am very interested in.
But as the recruiter has not said I assume the worse (another groupon
clone) and skip the ad.

Huh. I don't think I'd advise that tactic, but whatever floats your boat....

Also I have no intention of giving my CV to a recruiter just so they
can pester me with jobs I have no interest in (some recruiters go
strait to trash, I have mail rules to deal with them). So I'm not
going to send my CV in on spec.

I'll send it on *some* degree of spec. They have to at least mention
what sounds at first like a reasonably appropriate job.

If their first contact to me is to ddress me as "Dear Actively" and
try to talk me into being a Sharepoint Administrator in Ohmygod
Nebraska, no, the email gets marked as spam, and I take anything else
they send me with more and more grains of salt. (Sharepoint appears
nowhere on my resume or profiles, which all clearly state I'm looking
in or near Northern Virginia, or remotely, and Nebraska is about 1100
miles away.)

But if the emai addresses me by correct name, references specific
experience on my resume, and is for, say, a C++ job in Reston (about
10 miles away, and I've worked there before), okay, I'm not much
interested in C++ right now, but it was an honest try, that fits with
what I desires could fit on a resume. That one, I'll give a resume,
except maybe if they say they only handle C++ jobs.

-Dave

Not sure if you aware of it or not but Greece has a high chance of going bankrupt. So that maybe where the concerns come from. Blue sea is nice when you can live in the country w/o a good chance for your company to be nationalized, drop in value, or start paying you in some bogus currency which they’ve been printing 24/7 for 3 months (= little real value).

Not sure if you aware of it or not but Greece has a high chance of going bankrupt. So that maybe where the concerns come from. Blue sea is nice when you can live in the country w/o a good chance for your company to be nationalized, drop in value, or start paying you in some bogus currency which they’ve been printing 24/7 for 3 months (= little real value).

@Gintautas …Ah ok. Thanks for telling me that. You may also need to find ways to improve your sense of humor.

BR

Panayotis

P.S. I am working for a Greek company that has 200% sales growth every year the last 3 years. We are 80 people, only, and we now have 130M Euro in sales by end of August, only for 2012. Hope we reach 200M Euro by end of year. Believe me, that we have good ways to circumvent any bankruptcy. Also, believe me, that rumors is something that we do not base our business on.

No problem. I deduce you are Greek. And that you tried to advocate working in Greece is similar to working in DE or US, which is not that case at this point.

I mean people should decide by themselves where to work. And working in Greece (or any other country) is OK with me. I was just pointing out that the same job proposal could be crap under certain circumstances.

I am simply for telling people where they’d be working for right off. You tried to defend Greece as a viable option. It might be, I don’t know, but relocating there would pose serious questions for an informed applicant.

You know where there is high risk, there is also an opportunity. So Greece is OK, again, in my book, but letting people know whether they’d be working in Beirut or NY could be a page turner for most.

No problem. I deduce you are Greek. And that you tried to advocate working in Greece is similar to working in DE or US, which is not that case at this point.

I mean people should decide by themselves where to work. And working in Greece (or any other country) is OK with me. I was just pointing out that the same job proposal could be crap under certain circumstances.

I am simply for telling people where they’d be working fof

Well if a country requests billions in euros of help, it indicates that they are not ‘well’ nation wide. I meant that the country of work is important and should be mentioned in a job proposal. That’s it.

Yeah I must’ve missed the joke on this one. It looked like a Greek tried to defend the proposition that working next to a sea is more important than the longer term guarantees for an applicant.

If you take the fact that Greece is a step from bankrupt, then this mailing list is not a place to defend such claim. Just let people know and they’ll decide by themselves.

@Gintautas I agree with you that all the details of a job posting should be there from the beginning. But, please, exactly as you say that “this mailing list is not a place to defend claims about Greece being a step from bankrupt”

you need to know that this mailing list is not for you to tell anybody that Greece is a step from bankrupt in the first place. NO IT IS NOT A FACT that has to do anything with this list.

Is that clear?

I believe that we need to start talking seriously here. Ask for job postings to be fully detailed - and I am all with you, but stop telling whether Greece is a step before or after anything. It is the person who will read the post that will make his

own research/search about it.

Panayotis

Really? From all the countries in the world you wouldn’t relocate to Greece to begin with?

Panayotis Matsinopoulos, I think we agree on the issue of getting enough basic info from the initial ad text. I felt my thoughts about Greece was correct in general, but loosely (and harshly) phrased. So I take the “bankrupt” word back; though that’s how I’d feel about this particular country of work (again risking to have my numbers off, but 100+ billion in financial help for 10 mln people are a lot in my book, as compared to my country of 3 mln country in which such numbers don’t even come up) even when talking about the whole budget.